The State of Games, Episode 2 – The One About Naked People

The State of Games, Episode 2 is live! Fair warning: although we keep our language clean (and medical), this episode contains some adult themes, so discretion is advised.

This post contains some supplemental art that will aid in the enjoyment of your listening experience. As you listen through the episode, the following images will make much more sense. Bear in mind, however, that some of the links below contain artist depictions of nude male and female forms, so if you’d rather avoid that sort of thing, don’t go clicking after we’ve warned you! At right, the dual versions of the Baths card from 7 Wonders (click to embiggen).

Click here to view the somewhat-controversial Altar card from 7 Wonders (thanks to Scott Nicholson for the pic).

And this link will show you the 9 panels of semi-nude Greek mythological figures of the new game Olympos.

Links mentioned in the podcast

Go Forth and Game from Tom Gurganus

Gamerchris (Chris Norwood’s gaming blog)

Clever Mojo Games (makers of Alien Frontiers – put your pre-orders in now!)

Giant Fire Breathing Robot (GeekInsight’s gaming blog)

Moosestache Games (and the Facebook page for Rowboat – remember to tell them Dice Hate Me sent you for free stuff!)

Mi Gato se Incendia (the Dice Hate Me review and where you can buy)

Kickbones

Riddle of the Sphinx shoutouts

Graham R. (Twitter handle @colorninja)

Scott S. (Twitter handle @8bitdad)

Ian N. (Twitter handle @ianoble)

Like what you hear? Subscribe to the State of Games podcast RSS feed!

Related posts:

  1. The State of Games, Episode 1 – The One About the Chinese
  2. Dice Hate Me at the Bookstore: The Games Bible
  3. The 2010 Dice Hate Me Holiday Gift Guide
  4. The Table Ahead – Dice Hate Me in 2011
  5. Dice Hate Me Game of the Year Awards 2010
Comments
13 Responses to “The State of Games, Episode 2 – The One About Naked People”
  1. tomg says:

    I like that intro. The music really makes it for me. It was fun to record and I’m glad to add my voice to The State Of Games.
    -Can’t wait for the Mythos themed podcast. That is a genre that I know little about. Arkham Horror is calling to me.
    - Perhaps you should change the name of the blog to Bits Hate Me.
    - I like Meeples Beat Me.
    - I haven’t played Race yet but it is a favorite at Hypermind. Haven’t played Lost Cities either.
    - It’s even more funnier because Monkey doesn’t SEEM to pay that much attention to the details (though we know different). Haw!
    - Gender and nudity in games — The 7 Wonders Bath cards seem somewhat tame to me. The Altar card is a bit more provocative due to the diaphanous nature of the woman’s garment. I would agree with Monkey to the power feeling from the card. The choice of the female and the moon is appropriate. Women were, if I remember my history correctly, active in lunar worship. Olympos is more explicit for sure. It doesn’t bother me though I would probably not play this with my children. The middle card of Artemis(?) is more sensuous to me by her posture. The Zeus pic is on the edge. While not exactly showing anything, again I would avoid it with my children. Zeus whizzing lightning. Of course he would.
    - Gameathonapocaloozafestacon was a blast! I’m really glad you guys were able to make it. Homesteaders was fun and I really think Monkey won in retrospect. I’m sorry I missed out on Alien Frontiers. Maybe I’ll catch it soon. Gameathonapoc….3 – Big Ole Games is on the way.
    - I’ve heard Rowboat is good. I’m glad you reviewed it. It sounds like one I would like. I’m up for a game whenever.
    - Kickbones sounds fun and I need to get/print it. I think the kids would like it.
    - Dominion hates me.
    Thanks for the podcast. Looking forward to the next.
    Go Forth And Game,
    tomg

  2. dicehateme says:

    Tom – Thanks for the intro! It was hilarious. And thanks for listening.
    - The Mythos themed podcast is going to be epic. I’m working on getting Monkey up to speed on Lovecraft and Cthulhu-themed games; she’s pretty far along. I think Mansions of Madness will help round it all out. I’ll definitely have Arkham Horror and all the expansions at Gameathon3 so you can get your fix!
    - Monkey pays attention to EVERY detail, that is for sure. I wish I could distract her with shiny things so I could win every now and then.
    - Glad you agree that the nudity in the games we mentioned are fairly tame. I hear you about not playing Olympos with your kids – even though I believe the art is fairly innocuous and just a historical artistic interpretation, I also believe that the game theme is probably about PG-13. That would be an interesting discussion – a ratings system for boardgames, much like video games. I would argue against it, but it’s an interesting topic. Hrmmm.
    - Alien Frontiers is right here waiting for you whenever you want to play. Speaking of, do you think you could come over for dinner and games on March 3, 4 or 5?
    - Both Rowboat and Kickbones would be great for the family.
    - Dominion is evil like that.
    Cheers!

  3. Wolfie says:

    It’s no big deal to avoid a painting involving nudity or sexuality. However if a board game comes with a few nude figures on some of its cards and that makes you uncomfortable, to avoid the art means to avoid the entire game, which could be lame. It just seems so unnecessary to include it when it could so easily be avoided.

    I’m assuming most people wont really be offended when a game DOESNT include nudity.

  4. Let me start with the nekkidness – I don’t necessarily feel that any of the images are offensive or anything. But as Tom said, they’re not really appropriate for children either. According to BGG, the suggested ages for both 7 Wonders and Olympos are 10+, which is probably great for game complexity, but is not really cool for the content of the images. Because I would hate for someone to pick up Olympus because his 10-year-old daughter likes Greek mythology, only to be surprised by Zeus’ lightning-penis in the middle of play. 13+ or 14+ would be a lot more reasonable to me.

    Alien Frontiers – Yeah, I guess you’re off the hook, Chris. Other than maybe going on a bit too long, I had a lot of fun with it and can’t wait to get my pre-order copy (with rockets even!).

    Lost Cities – Utter crap. My wife didn’t even like it.

    And it sounds like maybe your name shoud be something along the lines of “Games Hate Me” since you apparently have issues with all kinds of bits, math, and losing to your wife!

  5. dicehateme says:

    Wolfie – Well, I think that a game designed for adult consumption should be allowed to include whatever artistic interpretations the designers and publishers wish. The problem I have is not with nudity – it’s with exploitative nudity. There is nothing wrong with showing human anatomy, at least in my opinion. But, then again, I’m not offended by it, nor do I have children, so I respect the fact that others’ may feel differently.

    Chris – I would agree with you and Tom – for the most part. It opens up a whole can of worms about the rating system set in place, in particular the age recommendations that you mentioned. I wholeheartedly agree with you that a game with adult themes should not be marketed with a 10+ age suggestion.
    As for Alien Frontiers, I am looking forward to my rockets, as well! Oh, and that card that got bent during our game – David is going to send me a new one, God bless him.
    I’m glad I’m not alone in the Lost Cities hate.
    Nah, I’ll stick with Dice Hate Me. They’re the little punks that have it out for me the worst. And, like I said, I do just fine with word games, creative games and strategy games, so it’s not all bad. ;)

  6. But I still think that Wolfie has a good point. Games are not really “art” per se. They’re not about making a bold statement or something high-minded like that. Games are supposed to fun for people, and game publishers want to sell lots of games. So why bother with a level of nudity that makes a relatively signifiant portion of your audience uncomfortable and which will possibly affect sales?

    I mean, certainly there could be some level of “thematic relevance” that would be helped by some objectionable nudity (as with Olympus). But then again, if you’d never seen the nekkid versions of the art, would anyone have questioned the picture of the mermaid if her hair was covering her breasts or if the Furies had a bronze breastplate over their chests?

    The only other thing I can think that may be influencing this is the actual desire to have some controversy over art. Because it can be very true that “any publicity is good publicity.”

  7. tomg says:

    Wolfie and Chris have good point about the nudity. If it is not necessary to the game why include it and lose customers. If it is somehow necessary, even thematically,that’s fine. Chris’ point about generating publicity could be quite valid. And it could be the artists just wanted to see what they could get by with.
    Lost Cities – wow, two gamers I respect frowning on it. Makes me not want to try it. But then again Monkey likes it….I’m so confused.
    Alien Frontiers has ROCKETS! Well I’m in.
    Blog name – How about “Dice Hate Me. Rio Grande Games Not As Much. But I Love On Some Creative Stategic Word Games”. You’d have to redo your logo though.:)

  8. Lee says:

    Really enjoyed your podcast and thoughful discussion of artwork on the cards, especially the very good point about the difference between sexuality and nudity. It seems ironic when the naked form is censored (oftentimes in situations where it is far from sexual) while overtly sexually material is not. Do you know if the majority of objections came from a US audience or did Europeans equally object to the inclusion of nudity in their games?

    Look forward to catching more of your insightful opinions and reviews. Keep up the good work.

  9. dicehateme says:

    Lee – Thanks for listening and for the kind comments. I do not know if the comments were from a US test audience or from European, but my guess would be US. There’s rarely a peep from the Europeans about nudity in anything. Again, thanks for stopping by, and we hope you enjoy more of our podcasts! Please let us know what you think.

  10. Jonathan says:

    Finally got around to listening to the podcast and taking a look at the images you mentioned. I think, as an adult, I agree with your points that nudity doesn’t necessarily equal sexuality (and vice versa). But as a parent of young children, I also know that that distinction only comes with some degree of maturity. A twelve-year-old boy, for instance, isn’t going to care that the image of the Furies is thematically appropriate or that it’s NOT a sexual image—he’s just going to see breasts. I think that what game designers choose to put on their games is up to them, but unless you’re specifically trying to make some statement about nudity, why make a 10+ game that many parents wouldn’t allow their kids to play?

    Again, for myself I wouldn’t mind the artwork. However, my gaming group currently has a lot of high schoolers—many of whom are from conservative families. I’d have to think twice about allowing games like this at my game night, simply because I don’t know how the kids (and their parents) would respond if it were known that there was nudity in the artwork.

  11. dicehateme says:

    Jonathan – Finally getting around to replying! I agree with what you’re saying, and I’m pretty sure we’re both on the same page. I don’t necessarily think that images such as those in Olympos are youth-appropriate, and it brings up interesting talking points about the ratings system on board games. As was previously mentioned, video games have a ratings system for maturity level, perhaps some board games should? I’m curious as to what people think – would, say, a parental advisory label prove too much of a detriment for sales? This is very grey territory.

  12. Maaike says:

    Public bathhouses were not only for men! There were seperate bathhouses for men and women.

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